NOTÍCIAS DO RAFALE

[faterra]

Os comandantes ingleses, ontem, não estavam informando que havia arrasado os caças líbios? Agora aparece este, como o primeiro "caça" a invadir a zona de exclusão?
Afinal, acabaram com as aeronaves, ou não?

[AlbertoRJ]

Libya, First aircraft Kill for a Rafale

Thursday March 24th was a busy day for the Rafale and Mirage 2000D fleet. After the scalp raid on the Hun air base, the Mod reports that 1 Recce and 4 interdiction missions have been performed.

Recce : 2 Rafale (French Air Force)
Interdiction : 2 Mirage 2000D + 4 Rafale B/C + 2 Rafale M + 2 Super Etendard (GBU-12 + AASM bombs)
During these missions, a Libyan Soko G-2A-E Galeb has been detected above the city of Misratah by an E-3. As it was a direct violation of the UN resolution 1973, a patrol of Rafale and Mirage 2000 was tasked to intercept the Galeb which was eventually destroyed just after landing on the Misratah airport by an AASM fired from a Rafale.


As a side note, it seems that the Scalp strikes were performed by Rafale B whereas the single seaters Rafale C/M are prefered for CAS and interdiction mission with the AASM guided bomb. It might be a good indication of the efficiency of the Rafale weapon system as far as workload is concerned.

In flight pictures of Rafale C + AASM taken by Thomas Goisque on Monday March 21st can be seen here.

[NovaTO]

Primeiro abate em terra? Utilizando AASM?

[AlbertoRJ]

Primeiro abate em terra? utilizante AASM?

De um avião sim.

[Justin Case]

Amigos,

Interessante e recente vídeo das operações no CDG (Líbia).
Observem o Rafale sendo lançado com o Dâmocles no 5º minuto.



Abraços,

Justin

[Cougar_PH]

Justin

Belo Video.

[Penguin]

France tries to tie Rafale with Mirage upgrade
RAHUL BEDI New Delhi | 27th Mar
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/fra ... ge-upgrade

Insidious French attempts to link the Indian Air Force's (IAFs) long-postponed and contentious Mirage 2000H fleet upgrade to the $10 billion acquisition of Dassault's Rafale fighters in support of the IAF's requirement of 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), have further delayed the pending retrofit.

Ostensibly, the deal to upgrade the IAFs 51 Vajra (Thunderbolt) Mirage 2000Hs, widely expected to be confirmed by end-March with fighter manufacturers Dassault Aviation, official sources said, had been further deferred beyond the March 2011 deadline following unresolved price differences over the retrofit.

The IAF merely confirmed the upgrade agreement had not been signed but declined to elaborate.

Last month Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik had declared at Aero India in Bangalore that the "complex and lengthy" negotiations with Dassault Aviation to upgrade the Mirage 2000Hs to Mirage 2000-5 levels had "concluded satisfactorily" and would be announced "shortly" by the Ministry of Defence (MoD). But military and armament industry sources said in recent weeks that the retrofit had been "complicated" by pressure from a desperate France to "inter-relate" it to the MMRCA procurement reportedly nearing closure.

Rafale is pitted against Boeing's F/A-18E/F, Eurofighter's Typhoon, Lockheed Martin's F16IN, Russian Aircraft Corporation's (RSK's) MiG 35 and Saab's JAS 39 Gripen for the MMRCA deal that is expected to increase to 200 fighters for around $16 billion.

On 10 March, ACM Naik had declared that the MoD would shortlist the MMRCA from amongst the six competitors by end-March and "hopefully" confirm the procurement four months later in July.

Believing Rafale to be in the MoD's shortlist alongside Eurofighter and F/A-18, the French were reportedly using the Mirage 2000H upgrade as leverage and possibly even an inducement to push their fighter so far only in service with the French military.

Earlier, in January 2008 Dassault's chief executive officer Charles Edelstenne, accompanying French President Nicolas Sarkozy on his India visit had made an unsolicited offer of supplying the IAF 40 Rafale fighters pending an "eventual decision" to augment its dwindling fighter fleet.

"If India is interested, we are ready to answer (with Rafale fighters). The offer stands," Edelstenne had declared, adding that the proposal to supply 40 Rafales was a "short term measure" keeping in mind delays that normally accompany all Indian defence contracts.

"We have some experience with Indian delays. Which is why Dassault has made the unsolicited offer," he stated. At the time the MoD and the IAF declined to comment on Edelstenne's offer.

Edelstenne also maintained that French government policies were more conducive than those of the United States for smooth defence ties with India.

"Our market is for countries that want to be independent of the US. The US policy (of imposing sanctions and stopping military deals) is well-known. We are a country which sells military equipment without any preconditions," he said.

The Dassault head was referring to US-imposed sanctions on India for its 1998 nuclear tests that impacted negatively on several domestic military projects and in providing spares to Indian Navy helicopters, a measure that severely curtailed their operational mobility. The sanctions, eventually lifted in October 2001 also impacted adversely on India's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft programme, delaying its development by several years as it is powered by a US-supplied engine.

Meanwhile, the IAF and the MoD had dismissed Dassault's demand of $3.3 billion to retrofit the Mirage-2000H fleet as "highly inflated". Both concurred that each upgrade, costing around Rs 2.9 billion each, which included equipping the fighters with new avionics, advanced navigation systems, mission computers and a pulse doppler radar capable of identifying objects up to a distance of 70 nm, was roughly equivalent to the price of a new fighter but critically without the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

In comparison, upgrading the IAF's 63 MiG-29 fighters presently underway in Russia was costing $964 million or a reasonable $15.3 million. The retrofit would render the MiG 29 from being an aerial interceptor and air dominance fighter to becoming a fighter-bomber capable of striking mobile and stationary targets on ground and at sea with high-precision weapons under all weather conditions.

Dassault officials, however, rationalised this huge upgrade cost by maintaining that the retrofitted fighters would provide IAF commanders the operational flexibility to commit fewer aircraft on combat missions for higher success rates, thereby rendering the programme cost effective.

Additionally, the upgraded electronic warfare systems, including radar warning receivers with instantaneous wide-bank receivers, electronic jammers and countermeasure systems and enhanced fuel capacity would keep the Mirage-2000Hs operationally relevant for over two decades.

Glass cockpits and helmet-mounted displays would complete the upgrade, in addition to arming them with Rafael Armament Development Authority's medium-range stand-off AGM-142 Raptor/Have Nap/Popeye air-to-surface launched cruise missile, specially configured for the IAF and codenamed "Crystal Maze" with an 80-100 km range. They would also be armed with MBDA's MICA, the anti-air multi-target, all weather, fire-and-forget short and medium-range missile systems.

The retrofit, which includes a Rs 30 billion proposal to augment the capabilities of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to retrofit 47 Mirage-2000Hs in Bangalore in as many months, after four were readied in France within 40 months of the deal being inked, would, doubtlessly enhance the Mirage-2000H's operational relevance but one which senior IAF officers believe makes little sense for such an astronomical price.

[Carlos Mathias]

Uns tentam amarrar a uma modernização.
Outros à um compra de ST, ou KC-390.
Outros ainda ao apoio num vaga no CS da ONU.
Uns e outros vendem radares atrelando à compra de treinadores (e depois roem a corda).

Indo além, alguns condicionam uma compra de aviões à compromissos de completo alinhamento político.

Cada um tenta empurrar no outro do jeito que pode.

[knigh7]

Carlos,

O próprio Fernando Cima, quando participava aqui do DB, embora vinculado a Gripen, reconheceu que não houve compromisso algum de compra de Tucanos (ou outra aeronave) por parte dos EUA como contrapartida à escolha da empresa americana para o SIVAM.

[marcelo l.]

Carlos,

O próprio Fernando Cima, quando participava aqui do DB, embora vinculado a Gripen, reconheceu que não houve compromisso algum de compra de Tucanos (ou outra aeronave) por parte dos EUA como contrapartida à escolha da empresa americana para o SIVAM.

Sim, não havia o compromisso mas foi vazado para jornais que existia, alguns (jornais) na época até citavam segundo fontes. O que transparece que a fictícia venda foi usada um modo de dourar a compra dos radares, claro pode ser leitura errada minha dos fatos

[Penguin]

Carlos,

O próprio Fernando Cima, quando participava aqui do DB, embora vinculado a Gripen, reconheceu que não houve compromisso algum de compra de Tucanos (ou outra aeronave) por parte dos EUA como contrapartida à escolha da empresa americana para o SIVAM.

Sim, não havia o compromisso mas foi vazado para jornais que existia, alguns (jornais) na época até citavam segundo fontes. O que transparece que a fictícia venda foi usada um modo de dourar a compra dos radares, claro pode ser leitura errada minha dos fatos

Fora de fóruns nunca li nada a respeito.

Histórico do SIVAM: http://atcbrasil.blogspot.com/2007/08/b ... sivam.html
Inicio do processo em 1993 e seleção da Raytheon pelo Brasil em 6/1994

Histórico do JPATS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Prim ... ing_System
Inicio do processo competitivo (RFP) em 5/1994 e conclusão com a escolha da Raytheon/Pilatus em 6/1995

Haviam concorrentes 100% americanos (Cessna 526 CitationJet e Rockwell Ranger 2000). Mesmo assim um projeto "estrangeiro" foi selecionado (PC-9). Concorrentes no JPATS:

1 - Cessna 526 CitationJet


2 - Embraer EMB-312H Super Tucano - improved EMB-312 Tucano with uprated engine and other improvements; for the basis for the later Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano. Partnered with Northrop

3 - Vought Pampa 2000 - a heavily modified FMA IA 63 called Pampa 2000

4 - Lockheed T-Bird II, partnered with Aermachhi for Aermacchi MB-339

5 - Beech-Pilatus PC-9 Mk 2, which won the competition. The PC-9 Mk 2 had a 70% redesign by Beechcraft; produced as the T-6 Texan II

6 - Rockwell Ranger 2000


7 - SIAI Marchetti S.211 - partnered with Grumman

Não houve nenhuma amarração entre o SIVAM e o JPATS. Por que haveria?
- O JPATS era uma concorrência disputada por 6 empresas americanas.
- Haviam empresas americanas com produtos americanos na disputa.
- A Raytheon estava disputando o JPATS.
- Apenas 1 mês depois do início do JPATS (RFP), a Raytheon foi anunciada vencedora do SIVAM.


[]s


OBS.:
Embora aparentemente não tenha nada a ver, a Suiça, cujo PC-9 estava concorrendo no JPATS conjuntamente com a Raytheon, havia selecionado o F/A-18C, cujo contrato para 36 unidades foi assinado em 1993 com entregas entre 1996 e 1999. Esse contrato foi consideravelmente mais vultoso do que o do SIVAM.

[marcelo l.]

Bom, Santiago podia não ter nada haver, mas foi ventilado nos jornais aqui de São Paulo, o que se escreve nos foruns é algo que se disse a muito tempo certo ou errado, foi usado para dourar a compra do Sivan que até hoje já deve ter tido mais 15 auditorias sobre os variados aspectos de prazo a valores do contrato, na época não sei se lembra mas tinha uma série de denúncias sobre o referida compra e muitas críticas até do meio militar.

O que me fica do Sivam é que contratos mal explicados com notas erradas na imprensa, podem gerar dúvidas (indevidas) sobre a lisura do processo, por isso maior transparência das propostas seria o ideal, desde valores horas voo (se todos tem o mesmo calculo e qual é) off-sets, custos de fabricação no brasil (se há) etc.

[Carlos Lima]

Pode não ter nada a ver, mas que na hora dos argumentos ajuda... ajuda sim...

[]s
CB_Lima

[Penguin]

Se houvesse um acordo JPATS x SIVAM, o Governo Brasileiro não teria solicitado propostas de diversos países e nem selecionado a Thomsom-CSF como finalista na disputa com a Raytheon. Aliás, a disputa foi dura, a Thales era a favorita e a decisão foi surpreendente.

No caso americano, se houvesse um acordo JPATS x SIVAM, eles não teriam emitido RFP para os maiores fabricantes locais (na época eram muitos), esses fabricantes não teriam se associado a fabricantes estrangeiros e investido em versões adaptadas ou não teriam desenvolvido aeronaves especificamente para essa competição.

Meus 2 cents.

[]s

[Carlos Mathias]

Olha, essa merece um grande e sonoro...

AHÃÃÃÃÃÃÃ...

Como o mundo é lindo quando se que ver assim.

ADMs no Iraque...
Salvar as criancinhas na Líbia e Afeganistão...
O SIVAM foi um exemplo mundial e eterno de lisura e nada foi dito, os foristas na época criaram tudo da cabeça deles...

Tá bom então, o que eu vi (ninguém me falou) na TV na época devia ser algum canal pirata transmitindo algum sósia do Bill Pinton.
Um canal clone se não me engano da GLOBO.
Minha memória já me falha.