Marinha da Grécia
Moderador: Conselho de Moderação
Re: Marinha da Grécia
Sou fã desses projetos da Damen, uma pena o 10514 fosse tão leve para nossas necessidades.
Não temais ímpias falanges,
Que apresentam face hostil,
Vossos peitos, vossos braços,
São muralhas do Brasil!
Que apresentam face hostil,
Vossos peitos, vossos braços,
São muralhas do Brasil!
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
O site da Damen para seus produtos navais chega a dar água na boca de tantos projetos. Muitos deles ainda cabíveis as necessidades da MB para o futuro.
Um mal é um mal. Menor, maior, médio, tanto faz… As proporções são convencionadas e as fronteiras, imprecisas. Não sou um santo eremita e não pratiquei apenas o bem ao longo de minha vida. Mas, se me couber escolher entre dois males, prefiro abster-me por completo da escolha.
A. Sapkowski
A. Sapkowski
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ibilities/The MEKO 200 is a frigate (FFG) design by the German shipyard Blohm+Voss as part of the MEKO family of warships. A total 25 MEKO 200 frigates of seven (7) different configurations were built for Australia (8 ships), New Zealand (2 ships), Turkey (8 ships), Portugal (3 ships) and Greece (4 ships). The Australian and New Zealand frigates have received (or are about to complete) a MLU while Turkey is about to start the MLU of its four newest frigates. Portuguese frigates will receive a limited modernization that will necessitate repurposing the frigates for low-intensity missions only while Greece is currently planning to upgrade its four 3,400-ton Hydra-class (MEKO 200HN) frigates commissioned during the 1990s (1992 first ship, 1998 final ship), as part of an ambitious program that amounts to 5 billion euros.
Triste sina ter nascido português 
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
É mano, quem quer rir tem que fazer rir.
Um mal é um mal. Menor, maior, médio, tanto faz… As proporções são convencionadas e as fronteiras, imprecisas. Não sou um santo eremita e não pratiquei apenas o bem ao longo de minha vida. Mas, se me couber escolher entre dois males, prefiro abster-me por completo da escolha.
A. Sapkowski
A. Sapkowski
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
Lockheed refines bid to modernize the Greek frigate fleet. Here’s what it’s offering.
By Megan Eckstein
Thursday, Sep 16
An artist's rendering of Lockheed Martin's Hellenic Future Frigate design for Greece. (Lockheed Martin)
WASHINGTON — American defense company Lockheed Martin is continuing to update its bid to build the Hellenic Navy’s new frigates and modernize its current ones, with Greece set to choose a path forward for its surface fleet by the end of the year.
Greece has asked for a three-part solution to modernize its surface fleet amid increases in Russian submarine presence in the Mediterranean Sea, migration from Africa across the sea and tension with neighboring Turkey. The Hellenic Navy wants to buy four new frigates, modernize the combat capability of its four current Hydra-class MEKO 200 frigates and receive some kind of interim capability to operate while the MEKOs undergo their upgrade process.
Lockheed Martin — alongside the U.S. Navy, with which the firm is paired for the official United States bid in the competition — thinks it has a winning solution due to the way its Aegis Combat System would link these frigates with the rest of the Hellenic fleet across a network, and due to the company’s promise to send the bulk of construction work to Greek companies.
Additionally, “one of the big benefits of the U.S. offer, as compared to all the other offers, is that this is being done through the U.S. government Foreign Military Sales process. Greece has transacted somewhere near 2,000 Foreign Military Sales cases with the U.S. It’s a very well-established process, it’s a very transparent process,” Jon Rambeau, Lockheed’s vice president and general manager for the Integrated Warfare Systems and Sensors business line, told Defense News in a Sept. 10 phone interview.
Five other bids from European shipbuilders appear to be still in contention, but he said Lockheed’s proposal is the only one that is part of an official Foreign Military Sales program, and that therefore comes with all the cost and schedule guarantees the U.S. Navy would expect if it were spending its own money.
In June, Naval News reported that Greece named the six bids on its short list: the Netherland’s Damen (SIGMA 11515 HN); France’s Naval Group (FDI-HN); Italy’s Fincantieri (FREMM); the United Kingdom’s Babcock (Arrowhead 140); Germany’s Blohm+Voss (MEKO A-200); and the United States’ Lockheed Martin.
Rambeau said those bids were given an initial ranking by Greek officials, but that order was not shared with industry.
Rambeau also said that if the American pitch wins, the U.S. Navy would act as “the custodian of Greece’s money” and “will contract with Lockheed Martin, and they will negotiate with us just as hard as if they were procuring this for the U.S. government. And at the end of the day, if there’s money left over in that case, by law the United States will have to return that money back to Greece.”
He’s hoping Greece’s familiarity with the FMS process and with Lockheed Martin, with which the Greek military has worked for more than 50 years, will give the bid an extra boost this fall. Bids are due in November, with a decision expected by the end of the year.
What is Lockheed offering?
Joe DePietro, Lockheed Martin’s vice president and general manager for naval combat and missile defense systems, told Defense News in a June interview that Greece’s requirements are based on a need for improved anti-submarine warfare and expanded-area air defense capabilities.
The new construction portion of the U.S. pitch is based on Lockheed’s Freedom-variant littoral combat ship for the U.S. Navy. The LCS was also used as the starting point for the Saudi multimission small combatant currently under construction.
This new frigate, dubbed Hellenic Future Frigate, would be centered around the COMBATSS-21 version of the Aegis Combat System and would be armed with eight Naval Strike Missiles, a 76mm Strales gun, 11 Mk 41 Vertical Launching System tubes and 21 RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missiles. The ship would include Link 16, Link 22 and Tactical Common Data Link connectivity, enabling it to connect across a network to the rest of the Hellenic military, DePietro told Defense News.
The ship would also come ready to accept the Common Anti-air Modular Missile Extended Range, which features two-way communication between the ship and the missile for better targeting and in-flight updates.
The ship would also be optimized for anti-submarine warfare with many of the systems that are included in the LCS anti-sub warfare mission package, DePietro explained. The SQQ-89 combat suite would help the frigate make sense of the whole operating area by combining information from the frigate’s variable-depth sonar — from dipping sonars employed by MH-60R helicopters and from hull-mounted sonars on other ships in the fleet. That information would inform the firing of anti-submarine rockets either from the frigate or its helicopters.
When it comes to modernizing the MEKO frigates, Lockheed is offering to install an Aegis-based combat system that would integrate these 1990s-era ships with the new frigates, the fleet of MH-60R helicopters, the Hellenic Air Force’s F-16s and more.
DePietro said the MEKO hulls are in decent shape but would need upgrades to their generators and turbines. But the top modernization priorities are to add a common combat system as well as Link 16 and Link 22 compatibility.
Rambeau said the ability to create a link across a network with the rest of Greece’s existing and future aircraft and weapons systems “has been a consistent theme as we think about the upgrades.”
The U.S. Navy would be the one offering the interim solution — likely a few decommissioned ships from the service that could temporarily be given to Greece — until the MEKO upgrades are complete.
A source familiar with the bid but not authorized to talk about the ongoing negotiations between the two countries told Defense News that if the U.S. Navy retires some of its Aegis cruisers or Freedom-class LCSs in fiscal 2022, as it asked Congress to do, then those ships could be the ones sent to Greece for the interim capability.
The Ticonderoga-class cruisers sport the Aegis Combat System that Lockheed is pitching in the new-build and MEKO-upgrade portions of the bid, and the Freedom-variant LCSs would be very similar in design to the new frigates; both are 118 meters in length, with largely the same hull, mechanical and electrical systems and with some of the same combat systems. However, much of the power for anti-submarine warfare capabilities on the LCS comes in an optional mission package, rather than built into the hull.
Industrial base considerations
Lockheed’s Hellenic Future Frigate design is nearly complete, and the company is in varying stages of talks with companies in Greece and throughout Europe to discuss their involvement in construction and in supplying weapons and sensors that Greece requested in its technical specifications.
Last month, Lockheed announced a list of key industry partners on the frigate modernization side of the bid. Companies who have signed formal agreements with Lockheed include Oceanking Technical and Trading, Intracom Defense Electronics, Endeavor Integrated Solutions, Akmon, Metka, Aeroservices, and ALS Naval Ship Designs.
An MH-60S Seahawk helicopter transfers suspected contraband from the Freedom-class LCS Billings to the LCS Sioux City on July 23, 2021. (MC2 Marianne Guemo/U.S. Navy)
Lockheed has been talking to the Skaramangas, Greece, shipyard about working together to build some of the four new frigates there; about what investments would be made to facilities there for this frigate program; and more potential work it could take on.
DePietro said Lockheed previously partnered with shipyards in Spain, Canada, Japan and South Korea, as well as in the U.S. when it paired with Fincantieri’s Marinette Marine Shipyard in Wisconsin for the LCS program. Lockheed helped modernize the foreign yards to build ships to American standards, he added.
The ongoing dialogue with the Skaramangas shipyard “very much reminds me of Marinette circa 2006, and a big part of this program is being able to revitalize and recapitalize Greek shipbuilding and its defense industry, which has kind of fallen off from where they were some 20 years ago in capabilities,” he said.
Rambeau said that an analysis of Lockheed’s proposal shows about a third of the money would be spent in the U.S., a third in Greece and a third elsewhere in Europe. About 70 percent of the labor, though, would take place in Greece to “put money back into the local economy.”
According to a Lockheed document, the frigate program would create 7.7 million hours of labor across a five-year construction timeline for the Greek workforce, with 2,500 skilled jobs at the shipyard alone.
DePietro said a range of options are under discussion with the Greek shipyard regarding which ships the yard would participate in building versus fully constructing. For any ships that are not fully built in Greece, he added, the Fincantieri Marinette Marine yard would be able to take on the work without disrupting the tail end of the LCS production there, the beginning of the U.S. Navy’s Constellation-class frigate construction, or the four-ship Saudi multimission combatant program.
He added that the Hellenic frigate project would benefit the supply chain, where many but not all the companies involved will transition to the Constellation class that Fincantieri will build in Marinette. Fairbanks Morse, for example, provides the LCS engines but is not on the Constellation program. Lake Shore Systems also provides several items for the LCS hull that will not be in the Constellation design.
For companies like them, keeping their production lines hot through their work on the Greek frigate program would benefit the U.S. Navy by allowing it a longer period of time to make decisions on how many spares it wants in the inventory.
Between now and the formal bid submission in November, the U.S. government is seeking congressional approval for the FMS case, and Lockheed is shoring up industry agreements.
https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... -offering/
By Megan Eckstein
Thursday, Sep 16
An artist's rendering of Lockheed Martin's Hellenic Future Frigate design for Greece. (Lockheed Martin)
WASHINGTON — American defense company Lockheed Martin is continuing to update its bid to build the Hellenic Navy’s new frigates and modernize its current ones, with Greece set to choose a path forward for its surface fleet by the end of the year.
Greece has asked for a three-part solution to modernize its surface fleet amid increases in Russian submarine presence in the Mediterranean Sea, migration from Africa across the sea and tension with neighboring Turkey. The Hellenic Navy wants to buy four new frigates, modernize the combat capability of its four current Hydra-class MEKO 200 frigates and receive some kind of interim capability to operate while the MEKOs undergo their upgrade process.
Lockheed Martin — alongside the U.S. Navy, with which the firm is paired for the official United States bid in the competition — thinks it has a winning solution due to the way its Aegis Combat System would link these frigates with the rest of the Hellenic fleet across a network, and due to the company’s promise to send the bulk of construction work to Greek companies.
Additionally, “one of the big benefits of the U.S. offer, as compared to all the other offers, is that this is being done through the U.S. government Foreign Military Sales process. Greece has transacted somewhere near 2,000 Foreign Military Sales cases with the U.S. It’s a very well-established process, it’s a very transparent process,” Jon Rambeau, Lockheed’s vice president and general manager for the Integrated Warfare Systems and Sensors business line, told Defense News in a Sept. 10 phone interview.
Five other bids from European shipbuilders appear to be still in contention, but he said Lockheed’s proposal is the only one that is part of an official Foreign Military Sales program, and that therefore comes with all the cost and schedule guarantees the U.S. Navy would expect if it were spending its own money.
In June, Naval News reported that Greece named the six bids on its short list: the Netherland’s Damen (SIGMA 11515 HN); France’s Naval Group (FDI-HN); Italy’s Fincantieri (FREMM); the United Kingdom’s Babcock (Arrowhead 140); Germany’s Blohm+Voss (MEKO A-200); and the United States’ Lockheed Martin.
Rambeau said those bids were given an initial ranking by Greek officials, but that order was not shared with industry.
Rambeau also said that if the American pitch wins, the U.S. Navy would act as “the custodian of Greece’s money” and “will contract with Lockheed Martin, and they will negotiate with us just as hard as if they were procuring this for the U.S. government. And at the end of the day, if there’s money left over in that case, by law the United States will have to return that money back to Greece.”
He’s hoping Greece’s familiarity with the FMS process and with Lockheed Martin, with which the Greek military has worked for more than 50 years, will give the bid an extra boost this fall. Bids are due in November, with a decision expected by the end of the year.
What is Lockheed offering?
Joe DePietro, Lockheed Martin’s vice president and general manager for naval combat and missile defense systems, told Defense News in a June interview that Greece’s requirements are based on a need for improved anti-submarine warfare and expanded-area air defense capabilities.
The new construction portion of the U.S. pitch is based on Lockheed’s Freedom-variant littoral combat ship for the U.S. Navy. The LCS was also used as the starting point for the Saudi multimission small combatant currently under construction.
This new frigate, dubbed Hellenic Future Frigate, would be centered around the COMBATSS-21 version of the Aegis Combat System and would be armed with eight Naval Strike Missiles, a 76mm Strales gun, 11 Mk 41 Vertical Launching System tubes and 21 RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missiles. The ship would include Link 16, Link 22 and Tactical Common Data Link connectivity, enabling it to connect across a network to the rest of the Hellenic military, DePietro told Defense News.
The ship would also come ready to accept the Common Anti-air Modular Missile Extended Range, which features two-way communication between the ship and the missile for better targeting and in-flight updates.
The ship would also be optimized for anti-submarine warfare with many of the systems that are included in the LCS anti-sub warfare mission package, DePietro explained. The SQQ-89 combat suite would help the frigate make sense of the whole operating area by combining information from the frigate’s variable-depth sonar — from dipping sonars employed by MH-60R helicopters and from hull-mounted sonars on other ships in the fleet. That information would inform the firing of anti-submarine rockets either from the frigate or its helicopters.
When it comes to modernizing the MEKO frigates, Lockheed is offering to install an Aegis-based combat system that would integrate these 1990s-era ships with the new frigates, the fleet of MH-60R helicopters, the Hellenic Air Force’s F-16s and more.
DePietro said the MEKO hulls are in decent shape but would need upgrades to their generators and turbines. But the top modernization priorities are to add a common combat system as well as Link 16 and Link 22 compatibility.
Rambeau said the ability to create a link across a network with the rest of Greece’s existing and future aircraft and weapons systems “has been a consistent theme as we think about the upgrades.”
The U.S. Navy would be the one offering the interim solution — likely a few decommissioned ships from the service that could temporarily be given to Greece — until the MEKO upgrades are complete.
A source familiar with the bid but not authorized to talk about the ongoing negotiations between the two countries told Defense News that if the U.S. Navy retires some of its Aegis cruisers or Freedom-class LCSs in fiscal 2022, as it asked Congress to do, then those ships could be the ones sent to Greece for the interim capability.
The Ticonderoga-class cruisers sport the Aegis Combat System that Lockheed is pitching in the new-build and MEKO-upgrade portions of the bid, and the Freedom-variant LCSs would be very similar in design to the new frigates; both are 118 meters in length, with largely the same hull, mechanical and electrical systems and with some of the same combat systems. However, much of the power for anti-submarine warfare capabilities on the LCS comes in an optional mission package, rather than built into the hull.
Industrial base considerations
Lockheed’s Hellenic Future Frigate design is nearly complete, and the company is in varying stages of talks with companies in Greece and throughout Europe to discuss their involvement in construction and in supplying weapons and sensors that Greece requested in its technical specifications.
Last month, Lockheed announced a list of key industry partners on the frigate modernization side of the bid. Companies who have signed formal agreements with Lockheed include Oceanking Technical and Trading, Intracom Defense Electronics, Endeavor Integrated Solutions, Akmon, Metka, Aeroservices, and ALS Naval Ship Designs.
An MH-60S Seahawk helicopter transfers suspected contraband from the Freedom-class LCS Billings to the LCS Sioux City on July 23, 2021. (MC2 Marianne Guemo/U.S. Navy)
Lockheed has been talking to the Skaramangas, Greece, shipyard about working together to build some of the four new frigates there; about what investments would be made to facilities there for this frigate program; and more potential work it could take on.
DePietro said Lockheed previously partnered with shipyards in Spain, Canada, Japan and South Korea, as well as in the U.S. when it paired with Fincantieri’s Marinette Marine Shipyard in Wisconsin for the LCS program. Lockheed helped modernize the foreign yards to build ships to American standards, he added.
The ongoing dialogue with the Skaramangas shipyard “very much reminds me of Marinette circa 2006, and a big part of this program is being able to revitalize and recapitalize Greek shipbuilding and its defense industry, which has kind of fallen off from where they were some 20 years ago in capabilities,” he said.
Rambeau said that an analysis of Lockheed’s proposal shows about a third of the money would be spent in the U.S., a third in Greece and a third elsewhere in Europe. About 70 percent of the labor, though, would take place in Greece to “put money back into the local economy.”
According to a Lockheed document, the frigate program would create 7.7 million hours of labor across a five-year construction timeline for the Greek workforce, with 2,500 skilled jobs at the shipyard alone.
DePietro said a range of options are under discussion with the Greek shipyard regarding which ships the yard would participate in building versus fully constructing. For any ships that are not fully built in Greece, he added, the Fincantieri Marinette Marine yard would be able to take on the work without disrupting the tail end of the LCS production there, the beginning of the U.S. Navy’s Constellation-class frigate construction, or the four-ship Saudi multimission combatant program.
He added that the Hellenic frigate project would benefit the supply chain, where many but not all the companies involved will transition to the Constellation class that Fincantieri will build in Marinette. Fairbanks Morse, for example, provides the LCS engines but is not on the Constellation program. Lake Shore Systems also provides several items for the LCS hull that will not be in the Constellation design.
For companies like them, keeping their production lines hot through their work on the Greek frigate program would benefit the U.S. Navy by allowing it a longer period of time to make decisions on how many spares it wants in the inventory.
Between now and the formal bid submission in November, the U.S. government is seeking congressional approval for the FMS case, and Lockheed is shoring up industry agreements.
https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... -offering/
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
FDI frigate (left) and Gowind corvette (right).
FDI Frigates And Gowind Corvettes For Greece ?
Several Greek media reported over the weekend that Greece would be on the verge of selecting a French offer for the Hellenic Navy new frigate requirement. The offer would consist of FDI (Belharra) frigates and Gowind corvettes.
Lorenzo Tual 27 Sep 2021
The offer would be for 3 FDI-HN frigates and 3 Gowind corvettes.
Lorenzo Tual story with additional reporting by Xavier Vavasseur
According to the sources (among them, Militaire, Defence Review and Naval Defence) the offer would be for 3 FDI-HN frigates and 3 Gowind corvettes. Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis would stop in Paris this afternoon, on his way back from the UN general assembly held in New York last week.
Contacted by Naval News this morning, a source with knowledge of the matter explained that the visit of Mr. Mitsotakis is not “last minute” but instead, was a long planned one: The Greek Prime Minister is set to inaugurate a new exposition on Greece at the Louvres Museum this afternoon. That being said, there may be a meeting between Greek and French authorities regarding the frigate deal, on the verge of this official visit, and an announcement (but not an official signature) may be made at the end of this meeting. We also learned that a large delegation (including Naval Group’s CEO) visited Greece last week to further advance the negotiations. Contacted by Naval News, Naval Group refused to comment on the latest rumors.
This new turn of events would come at the most opportune time for Naval Group, still shocked by the sudden cancelation of the so-called “contract of the century”, Australia’s Attack-class submarine program.
This would follow the logic of the shortlist released some months ago, which we covered here, where the French offer was placed in the top category along with the Dutch offer from Damen and the Italian one from Fincantieri. We previously analyzed in detail all three ships in this article
It would end this long running effort from Naval Group to sell the FDI in Greece, following the bilateral talks that soon transformed into a dual competition with Lockeed Martin, only to merge into an international contract featuring all of the world’s greatest shipbuilders.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... enic-navy/
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
Depois do chute na bunda dos submarinos australianos, esse foi um grande gol para a Naval.
Não temais ímpias falanges,
Que apresentam face hostil,
Vossos peitos, vossos braços,
São muralhas do Brasil!
Que apresentam face hostil,
Vossos peitos, vossos braços,
São muralhas do Brasil!
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P44
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
https://www.naval-group.com/en/greece-s ... -three-fdi
Greece signs a Memorandum of Understanding with Naval Group and MBDA opening negotiations for the supply of three FDI HNs and one optional
FDI
28 SEPTEMBER 2021 GROUP INTERNATIONAL SURFACE SHIPS PRESS RELEASE
Greece signs a Memorandum of Understanding with Naval Group and MBDA opening negotiations for the supply of three FDI HNs and one optional
On September 28th, Nikólaos Panayotópoulos, the Greek Minister of Defence, Pierre Eric Pommellet, CEO of Naval Group, and Eric Béranger, CEO of MBDA, signed a Memorandum of Understanding to open negotiations to provide the Hellenic Navy (HN) with three Defence and Intervention frigates (FDI HN) and their equipment as well as an optional additional frigate.
The FDI HN frigates will be built in the Naval Group shipyard in Lorient, where the second in the series for the French Navy has just entered production.
The FDI HN will be an asset of power and sovereignity for Greece.
With the FDI HN, the Hellenic Navy will have a state-of-the-art, high-performance surface fleet.
As a first-rank frigate, the FDI HN is a compendium of the best technologies of Naval Group, Thales and MBDA, which will notably supply the ASTER 30 B1 and Exocet MM40 Block 3C missiles. It will be fully interoperable with European and NATO fleets.
Greece will become the second customer of this multi-mission frigate, bringing the number of units produced from five for the French Navy to eight in total, plus one as an option.
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
Pelo comunicado as corvetas Gowind não entraram no pacote...
E parece que a Grécia comprou a ideia de uma Europa com materiais europeus...
E parece que a Grécia comprou a ideia de uma Europa com materiais europeus...
Não temais ímpias falanges,
Que apresentam face hostil,
Vossos peitos, vossos braços,
São muralhas do Brasil!
Que apresentam face hostil,
Vossos peitos, vossos braços,
São muralhas do Brasil!
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
Pelo que os gregos queriam, modernizar os navios que tem, e comprar mais uma parelha de novos, a primeira opção não entrou também no pacote. Mas pode ser que mais tarde os detalhes desta negociação ainda tragam novidades.
As Gowind pode ser que sejam uma opção mais para frente, caso não haja mesmo a modernização das Meko 200 helênicas. O que seria gasto com elas talvez possa ajudar a construir as corvetas francesas no país.
A ver.
As Gowind pode ser que sejam uma opção mais para frente, caso não haja mesmo a modernização das Meko 200 helênicas. O que seria gasto com elas talvez possa ajudar a construir as corvetas francesas no país.
A ver.
Um mal é um mal. Menor, maior, médio, tanto faz… As proporções são convencionadas e as fronteiras, imprecisas. Não sou um santo eremita e não pratiquei apenas o bem ao longo de minha vida. Mas, se me couber escolher entre dois males, prefiro abster-me por completo da escolha.
A. Sapkowski
A. Sapkowski
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
do FD:
:'(On October 27th, a LOI for the possible transfer of 2 Karel Doorman-class (M) frigates and 6 Alkmaar-class mine countermeasures vessels to the Hellenic Navy, was signed between Greece and the Netherlands!
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Re: Marinha da Grécia
Os caras estão realmente muito nervosos.
Um mal é um mal. Menor, maior, médio, tanto faz… As proporções são convencionadas e as fronteiras, imprecisas. Não sou um santo eremita e não pratiquei apenas o bem ao longo de minha vida. Mas, se me couber escolher entre dois males, prefiro abster-me por completo da escolha.
A. Sapkowski
A. Sapkowski